General Discussion

By , September 30, 2009 6:18 pm

This page can be used to discuss anything you like, whether it’s hockey, or anything else (short of viagra, and other exciting spam topics). Just use the comments down below to post what you like. Try not to get too out of hand. Obviously keep it clean still, and keep it legal. Other than that, feel free to talk about whatever you like here.

5,728 Responses to “General Discussion”

  1. Racki says:

    Alan: I did some reading around too beforehand and got the impression that he was just a work in progress that fans were being really impatient with. He’s quite young still (just turned 21), so he will definitely learn a lot. But I think the reaction you got from someone and what I read would reinforce that we’d get completely fleeced in that trade if that’s what we had to give up.

    I did see the odd fan here and there ripping on him, then I saw several that were that he just needed some patience from everyone. Either way, I guess that tells you that he’s not really ready yet, so we’d be giving up a guy in Petry who might even be where Bogosian is now and might even have the same potential.

  2. Bostonoiler says:

    TreenasOil tweeted Petry won’t be part of the deal, rather Smid and Gagner would be going to the Jets.

  3. Racki says:

    In all honesty, they lost some credibility with me with the “Horcrap” tweet. Not that a person who has a pic of a model or pornstar or whatever should have any credibility.

    I’ll still follow along with each tweet, but I don’t really take as much of what they say as being true. We’ll see. Calling the Foster / Sutton trade was the only “miracle” I’ve been witness to so far, but I’d have to say that was pretty good. But maybe their luck has run out :P

    Anyways, humoring the deal……

    If the Oilers have done their research and find Bogo to be a really good d-man, then I might do it if Winnipeg pads their end some more and/or they take Khabi. lol

  4. Grass&sOIL says:

    Anyone seen this goal yet?

    I saw it on Sportscenter a day or so ago(on a top ten list I think) and I guess it has only now been uploaded to Youtube even though it is from the IIHF Division III World Championships(this is division 3 hockey in Israel??? that were held back in April.

    http://www.totalpros…in-april-video/

    And Sherbatov added five goals and eight assists during a 26-2 Trumping of South Africa and now plays in the QMJHL!!!

    Seriously I have to say that this is the most illish goal that I have ever seen.

  5. zackman35 says:

    So currently, as per @TreenasOil the Oilers have offered…

    To Win
    Gagner
    Petry

    To Edm
    Bogosian sp*

    But Winnipeg has mentioned they prefer Smid over Petry? And NYI have stated interest in Hartikainen.

    If Bogosian has franchise d-men potential or has the rare ability to become a “true number one D-man” then I think that would be quite an interesting trade. But I don’t like the idea of trading Gagner because he is still so young and has so much he could achieve. I firmly believe he could end up being our second center for years to come and I would only trade him if we were getting another center in return with similar potential.

  6. Bostonoiler says:

    zackman35: So currently, as per @TreenasOil the Oilers have offered…To WinGagnerPetryTo EdmBogosian sp*But Winnipeg has mentioned they prefer Smid over Petry? And NYI have stated interest in Hartikainen. If Bogosian has franchise d-men potential or has the rare ability to become a “true number one D-man” then I think that would be quite an interesting trade. But I don’t like the idea of trading Gagner because he is still so young and has so much he could achieve. I firmly believe he could end up being our second center for years to come and I would only trade him if we were getting another center in return with similar potential.

    But we need depth at all positions. I’d trade a #2 center for a #1 defender 7 days a week.

  7. zackman35 says:

    Gagner looks much farther along to reaching his potential than Bogosian though. Although so far what I’ve read tonight is that from a statistical standpoint that Bogosian is quite a d-man and he’s playing up against quality competition/top lines.

    I’m not sure I would like the trade still, then we would most likely have to force RNH up the depth chart. I like the idea of strong competition for that last center roster spot (more importantly time for RNH to develop) and having a high quality young centerman over a “potential” number one d-man at this time.

    I’m still on the fence but an interesting rumour none the less!

  8. chucker says:

    I say keep Gags for at least another year. He’s very similar to Marc Savard in his development, potential and early career criticism. With Cogs gone and big draft picks coming in, he better have something to prove this year. I think hevcomes to camp with something to prove. This is my hope for him.

  9. Racki says:

    Gagner is the new Hemsky (injuries aside), IMHO… in the sense that patience will pay off. He might not ever be that elite level talent, but one day we’ll see what we were hoping to see.

  10. Alan-NottsUK says:

    Bostonoiler: But we need depth at all positions. I’d trade a #2 center for a #1 defender 7 days a week.

    the thing is you’re trading a #2 center + a top 4 D, for a guy who at the moment is looking like he may never be more than a #3 D.

    You’re basing his value on his draft value, he’s not a prospect anymore, his play has regressed not progressed. And the lack of hockey sense that keeps being brought up will stop him from ever being a true #1 D.

    At this moment Gagner > Bogosian.

    The Oilers should be starting to look to trade spare parts on our team for established players.

    Also Bogosian still hasn’t signed a deal with the Jets.

  11. Racki says:

    Agreed with alan. I probably overrated bogo in the past sure to his pre-nhl ability. I’d say it’s way too early for fans to give up on him, but that trade seems to be lopsided in the Jets’ favor.

    If we’re buying low, we should be paying low. Right idea, potentially wrong player. I guess it would be like trading gagner and petry for barker

  12. chucker says:

    I don’t get all the hype on Bogo. As mentioned, his play is not keeping up wiyh his draft rank. Teubert anyone?

  13. Mr.Majestyk says:

    I don’t think the Oilers would even consider this trade if they hadn’t already given up on Gagner or like Cogliano they feel he’s being overtaken by younger players. I’d say the same thing about Bogo. Have the Jets given up on him already? Is he no longer the player they thought he was? Those are things to consider and who wins this trade? Oiler fans don’t like it because they are giving up too much to get Bogo, Jets fans don’t like it because they aren’t getting enough. I wouldn’t do the deal because there are too many question marks.

    If both Gagner or Bogosian were on top of the league they wouldn’t be available though. As bad as Bogo has been that makes him available…and if years from now he turns into a Shea Weber the Jets look like fools for trading him in one of their first major moves with a future rival and divisional opponent.

  14. Racki says:

    As “bad” as Gagner is, he’s pretty underrated by most fans, I think. I still say there is a very good player there. And to me, it’s crazy to give up Petry for Bogosian. At this stage there probably much sign that there will be a lot of separation between the two. If we’re giving up Gagner and Petry, or Gagner and Smid, I guess we better be pretty damn sure about the d-man’s potential, is all. And well, it’s sounding less like Bogosian is the real deal, unfortunately. I still think Thrashers/Jets fans are bailing on him way too early though.

  15. Bostonoiler says:

    Rumor is dead. according to our girl Treenasoil the Jets wanted MPS for Bogo, Tambi said no. put this one to rest.

  16. oilinblood says:

    MY opinion is in agreement with everyone and in disagreement with everyone. i have not been high on gags but at the same time he is a right handed centre with a mediocre amount of skill…mostly in play making. In 4 years of hockey he has never made my jaaw drop on any singular play. I think about this observation when racki says he is the next hemsky. i was never a huge hemsky fan but he made your jaw drop from game 1. Gags does not have any of that kind of skill.
    The comparisons to marc savard can be used to a point. IMHO Savard didnt have half the chance to achieve as Gags has to this age.
    during the draft year i was big on both doughty and bogosian. However, since the draft i have watched both play alot and the difference in ability between the two is stunning. they are not to be mentioned in the same breath EVER. they only have a right handed shot and draft year in common. that being said would i like another righty on d? yes.
    Petry is a solid righty prospect with no issues mentally and no issues in being a crybaby or work ethic. i have followed petry since before we signed him in college and im quite happy with where he is at. theres no reason to move him and certainly not for what i feel is a failed top 10 pick… much like brule didnt turn into more than a depth player.
    For smid, i love the game and with him i have seen a solid agile and puckmover upside. his first season – before we got pitkannen- had him deking out an entire opposition teams 5 piece corps. i want to see more of that while also trying to be the physical d he is becoming. i have to think he is being held back more by a narrow coaching mind or by the lack of a strong rhd force on his tandem to support him. I do feel smid is a top 4 who needs a support partner (in other words not gilbert). Concussions are worrisome.
    as for the centre position as a whole. we are in good shape as is and i would be happy to go with this staff into the coming season and letting lander, rnh, pitlick, vv battle it out in camp and pre-season to take a job from a vet. there should not be a spot open going into camp, they should all be filled with the rookies trying to steal jobs. if a rook doesnt absolutely crush his vet counterpart… he should be sent back for more study, bulking, and teaching.
    so in all honesty giving up a rhd (petry), or rhc for another fail project in a different rhd… is a rediculous notion and severe over payment. there are a few rhd out there in the prospect ranks of nhl teams that i would much rather go for than bogo. if bogo was a ufa i would make a small offer for a look see… but theres no way in hell i give up quality pieces for a piece we likely already have. Also, a bogosian wouldnt work as much on the top pair with whitney as he would on a second pair with smid…so why would smid be mentioned? the whole rumor is atrocious.
    Am i against aquiring bogo… no but not at the costs beingg associated with aquiring him and his brain dead ways.

  17. oilinblood says:

    Bostonoiler: Rumor is dead. according to our girl Treenasoil the Jets wanted MPS for Bogo, Tambi said no. put this one to rest.

    sounds like another ecklund changing names around.

  18. oilinblood says:

    Alan-NottsUK: the thing is you’re trading a #2 center + a top 4 D, for a guy who at the moment is looking like he may never be more than a #3 D.You’re basing his value on his draft value, he’s not a prospect anymore, his play has regressed not progressed. And the lack of hockey sense that keeps being brought up will stop him from ever being a true #1 D.At this moment Gagner > Bogosian. The Oilers should be starting to look to trade spare parts on our team for established players.Also Bogosian still hasn’t signed a deal with the Jets.

    well said. bogosian is his draft years brule. Its his job to prove he is not and stop whining. I would be more comfortable trying to get Schenn to be honest if we go in that direction of aquiring a guy who hasnt really hit his potential and is still somwhat unknown as to if he will reach it. And obviously i would be going hard on offers for Weber and Seabrook (he didnt get a NTC as far as i know) and to a lesser extent Green. I have to believe that Tambi is doing just that. if he has gagner being mentioned in a trade for mr. fail than i am sure gags is being offered for a REAL player like weber seabrook and green…who have actually proven themselves as what they are and will be.
    A cheap option would be Robidas. id be alittle worried about him in the NW though but i have always been a fan of the little mite. With their ownership situation i would think there would be a chance. at the very least a flip of him for gilbert i feel would be a significant upgrade in accountability, c¸onsistency and dependability. Theres something to be said of a guy who finishes his pass knowing he will get hit, gets hit into the opposition bench, never takes his eyes off the play as he goes in to the bench and gets out… treating it all like another day at the office. as dependable as aplayer can come…just a small package.

    stupid tiny buttons

  19. oilinblood says:

    bbtw there was a good article by the globe and mail years ago on rightys that i had linked to on the old omb. i tried to link it again but because it is archived you need a subscription to view it… so i found a site that plagiarized it, the saints they are, so here

    http://hockey-stick-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/03/right-shooting-defensemen-in-high.html

    spaceks comments are the truest and should hit people over the head the most on just how important it is to have a cupboard of rhd`s. Lowe was actually very good thru his years of gm at keeping ample rhd`s in the system.

    one of the things that made me remember chucker and racki at the old omb back in like 2006 was the fact that they were two of the only other posters that broke down their dmen and knew what hand they were and the importance. every year, or 3 times a year, i would have to write up a summary as to why it was important (because people would ask), from playing d 8 years and being a 5`11“ 182lbs (9 – 17) lhd who played right , i know that feeling that all my outlet passes are being telegraphed due to my body turning to use my forehand off my wall, or having to risk going off my back hand and having the puck move too much to the back end of my curve on the reverse or the amount of times trying to use one hand rather take my body out of a lane. plus you get corked alot more. you definently have to be a quicker reader of plays and quicker executioner to make it work and be trusted on that side. one thing that saved me was that i was an ambi turner :P i could play with either handed stick but far more comfortable with a left shot and my backhand was quite crisp either as pass or shot 9likelye due to either hand being able to be the power hand.

  20. oilinblood says:

    Bostonoiler: Rumor is dead. according to our girl Treenasoil the Jets wanted MPS for Bogo, Tambi said no. put this one to rest.

    how about magnum at centre? personally, since game 1 last year i thought he would be best at pivot. i like his game for a centre. with all the talk about trying hall, i would perfer that magnum being given a look at pivot. Maybe then we do need to replace Gags next summer. plus hall is great on the wing just leave him there. and this is why i wanted larsson. lander will be in the mx soon and others.

    Hall Horcoff Eberle
    smyth gags hemsky
    jones mags omark

    mags being tried at centre cant be any worse than cogs ever was on his best day.

  21. Racki says:

    Fyi the hemsky comparison wasn’t in regards to skill sets and talent levels as opposed to them seeming to be slow to break out.. At leAst compared to fan expectations. i was always patient with hemsky, but guys were calling him a nobody early on, saying he’ll never be a star. I think gags can relate. Hemsky showed his best value within the last few years. Patience will pay off with 89 imho. I see more of a smart playmaker than most ready to bloom.

  22. oilinblood says:

    no i know what you were saying. as i said at the start of my first post i agree and disagree. i agree he has promise still and i have stated from his first day at training camp in his rookie year that we were rushing the guy by leaving a spot for him. i like him and certainly wouldnt be giving him up without a PROVEN player of substance. I am also very much a devil you know person. we know what gags brings to this team. a player changing teams and sytems and peers wont always give you the same results. Thats the whole reason other teams even bother to take chances on other guys. straight up id rather take gags at the level he has given us, rather than aquire a guy who looks like a 3-4 dman that we have lots of at such a high cost.
    the other point i made was i wasnt big on hemmer but hemmer did do amazing things since day 1. he has had his lackings but the skill has always been evident and unquestionable. for gags the skill isnt that obvious, he doesnt do any one thing in a superstar level… he just is what he is. to expect him to achieve heights when 320 games hasnt brought it out is a little like thinking a pile of spaghetti made the universe. also i did say the savard analogy is quite decent if you erase the fact gags has 4 full seasons because i choose to discount the 2 seasons he should have been in the A.

    im sorry i write so much… its nice to talk hockey and not work.

    how do you feel about mag’s in the middle?

  23. Racki says:

    I think with Hemsky though, he had the flash, but didn’t have the finish. I.e., he could dangle, but couldn’t score. But he did make sick passes early on. But yah, the goal scoring level wasn’t there. I recall many people being frustrated with him either dangling his way in and being unable to finish, or dangling his way in and passing it off. The hockey sense was there, but the decision making wasn’t totally there, and the hands couldn’t always keep up with his brain.

    That’s kinda where I draw the comparison with Gagner. I personally think he has higher than average hockey sense, but in his case some of his deterrents are mental, some have to do with his physical limitations. I think he’ll overcome both in time.

    Again, my comparison to to Hemsky wasn’t direct at all, as I think you know. But for Hemsky, I think he was akin of a guy by the name of Marcel Hossa. If he wasn’t Marion’s brother, most wouldn’t have even heard of him. Early in his career he had incredible flash and unreal hands, but just couldn’t seem to do anything past the deke. That’s basically what Hemsky was early in his career. I’m talking in the same age range that Gagner has played in, not 2005/06 and on. I always loved Hemsky from day 1 because of the flash he showed, but lots of people here at the time thought he was never really going to be anything more than what Marcel Hossa ended up being (a flashy guy with no finish).

  24. Racki says:

    BTW, unless RNH makes the team, most figure that Gagner looks like a good bet for center between Smyth and Hemsky. I think that will make or break him. If he can’t succeed between those two….

    However, if he can, that could do wonders for his confidence and push him further along in his progress.

  25. Racki says:

    For what it’s worth, Bob Stauffer shot down the Jets/Oilers rumors as false.

    So that brings me to two points:
    a) he’s not TreenasOil probably.. lol unless he’s trying to throw us off the scent. :P
    b) MSM guys (or anyone not on the management staff) seem to think that a team’s management is always being honest with them. “Well, Craig MacTavish is going nowhere, folks!”

    Nonetheless, the last few tweet topics left me thinking that the Sourceress is a fraud that happened to fall on some good info one day. :P

  26. oilinblood says:

    yeah he played for mtl. which reminds me of jani rita and the hat trick he scored in mtl. rita was an interesting chap.there were 4 games i remember watching him thinking… jesus this guy could be an mvp. A kovalenko minus booze and smoking and with the addition of nice hands for finish. its hard to believe that but he had a few dominant games. selivanov and ciger were others that kind of fit that whole… “jesus when they get consistency they could be a top line all star”. thats why i never got on the schremp boat nor the cogs. i need to see some dominance at least. i dont mind admitting the feeling towards rita that something was there, because it was shown. who was that damn russian prospect we had that played 2 shifts and got thrown back to russia? that guy made one give away but i really thought he had all the tools and knew how to use them. the give away in question showed the speed of the nhl game surprising a rookie in his first game…as he got quickly challenged by a forechecker and made a blind pass to no one.
    remember the dopita experiment? i thought he was actually really slick but he just wasnt a fast skater nor an agile one. he didnt fit the rest of the team but the guy could stand still and beat defenders and pass or make a top corner shot. when you cant keep up though…. on a trap team i thought he would have been great and i said a few times lou should have investigated him for the devils..

  27. Racki says:

    I believe you are talking about Alexei Mikhnov as the russia prospect…? We never really had that many russian prospects.. :P (least of all many that even played here)

  28. Alan-NottsUK says:

    oilinblood, did your jaw not drop on this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aDLJE-Kkpk

    best quality I could find sadly.

  29. Alan-NottsUK says:

    Cogliano avoids arbitration + agrees to 3 yr deal – $2.15M, $2.35M + $2.67M works out $2.39M per for the caphit

    that trade looks a lot better now

  30. Racki says:

    Ahh yes, that was definitely the best Gagner goal that I can remember. Other than his shootout magic.

    As for Cogs, I actually figure he would have gotten around that much (although slightly less) via arbitration.

    I think the Ducks will be happy about that, in the end. Too much for us to pay for the role he’d have to be in here though.

  31. Racki says:

    Haven’t seen $ amount yet, but Stamkos has re-signed with the Bolts for 5 years.

    Edit: $7.5M per year.

  32. Grass&sOIL says:

    So it appears that the Arena funding has hit another snag as the Province is said to not be interested in contributing the remaining $100M towards the project.

    The solution for coming up with the remaining $100M is simple for me. Alberta should Legalize sports gambling (not that Sports Select crap but Vegas style bookies) and use the profits to help build sports facility’s. The revenue from the legal sports betting could not only go towards places like the new barn. It could also go to community rec centers, youth fields/playing surfaces and anything else sports related.

    Pretty much every other type of gambling (Casino’s, VLTs, Lottery and Horse racing is already allowed in Alberta. In fact the private Horse Racing enterprises already receive subsidies from the Provence of Alberta.

    http://blogs.edmonto…-arena-project/

    I don’t see much harm in allowing sports betting if it helps out in keeping the pride and joy of our communities. There is already many other forms of gambling out there and small niche type in sports betting is not going to have a huge impact on ppl who can’t gamble responsibly(as they already have their gambling outlets).

    BTW- I do understand the pitfalls that gambling can unleash on our society as my best friend is hugely addicted to slot machines. I just have no sympathy for her and the $1000′s of dollars she recklessly drops on the slots every weekend. No one is forcing her or other addicts to do it and if they can’t do something responsibly then it is on them and it is their problem. That may sound a bit harsh on my part but it is my stance.

  33. Alan-NottsUK says:

    i bet on oilers games a fair amount, anyone with internet access can do it anyway

  34. Grass&sOIL says:

    Alan-NottsUK:
    i bet on oilers games a fair amount, anyone with internet access can do it anyway

    Exactly!!! We can already do this so it makes even more sense for the Province to get in on the action and collect some of the pie.

    I don’t know about you or others but I would much rather go to an in Provence gambling establishment and get a physical, printed document on my bet then do one via the internet.

  35. zackman35 says:

    Rainy day? Check out the TML fans’ trade proposals! As per TSN comment from the Stamkos signing:

    Quote: “now that stamkos is signed, I think burke should trade kadri, schenn, and kulemum for stamkos straight up. I think stevie Y would be tempted with that offer”

  36. Racki says:

    Per Helene Elliot:

    NHL mediator unable to resolve dispute btween Kings, Oilers over Colin Fraser’s fitness. Next step: Kings must decide if they want to file a formal grievance with the league. If so, it would be heard and ruled on by Commissioner Bettman.

    Anyways, I guess more evidence that Stauffer’s source was full of shit.

  37. chucker says:

    The province will put it’s hundred million in for things like LRT and sewers etc. that will be needed once the ground is broken.

    Also, it would seem that it would be good PR to upgrade the draft pick in that trade. The Kings will appeal and if it goes their way, we look like morons…again.

  38. john says:

    chucker: The province will put it’s hundred million in for things like LRT and sewers etc. that will be needed once the ground is broken.Also, it would seem that it would be good PR to upgrade the draft pick in that trade. The Kings will appeal and if it goes their way, we look like morons…again.

    Agreed @ the trade fuck up. Tambi should go to Lombardi & say, “We made a mistake, take that 7th pick & make it a 5th & let’s make this go away” Should be a done deal I would think.

  39. Racki says:

    I honestly don’t think the NHL will do anything. Our doc’s word vs. theirs. I don’t think we should be doing that asshole Lombardi any favors.

    If the NHL steps in and says that we should upgrade the pick, so be it. But if we go ahead of time and upgrade it, I’m not sure it’s any better because you might as well say your doctors are fuck ups. Roll the dice!

  40. chucker says:

    I think we are in the right here too Racki. I just wonder what other GMs think about it and if their perception is that we are horse traders, that’s not good, but i stand behind all my previous statements. Lombardi is blowing smoke here in my view.

  41. Racki says:

    Yah, I hear what you are saying. However, the Ducks made a trade with us since then (and it wasn’t pending a medical). Also, I think Tambellini has to be careful with something like that. What’s it saying to your medical staff when you do offer compensation freely? He’s got to stick by them and just hope for the best out of a ruling here.

    If he wants to extend the Olive branch, then I guess if the NHL says the team fucked up and owes a 5th rounder, then maybe he could even bump it up to a 4th at that point, for example… then offer an apology and let it be known it was an honest mistake (twice? hah). At any rate, he has to stand behind his medical staff here, I’d say, and support them. Their reputation is on the line here

  42. chucker says:

    I hope we are found to be in the clear on this.

  43. oilinblood says:

    just wanted to say lalime retired today and i give him a tip o’ the cap. i still shake my head wondering what happened to him. he stood on his head for some of the best playoff goaltending i have ever seen in my life. to this day i dont think i have seen such consistent high end goaltending in such important games as i saw in those leafs/sens and later the devils/sens conf final. also lalime, win or lose, often looked like the best player of the series. when the sens booted him it had nothing to do with lack of ability, lack of results, or being a bad guy… something made me think a bigger issue was being kept under wraps. since then he had injury troubles. i know in my younger days after the first cujo vs lalime show down i was so amazed at such an astronomical performance 2 seasons in a row that i went off the deep end and bought every crisp flair rookie i could possibly purchase. (nerd in me coming out). i will always remember his playoff goaltending and the one stupid long shot goal he let in that likely ended his time in ott. the type of bad goal luongo lets in every period. lalime was just SICK. gawd i wish i had those series on dvd. goaltending at its finest.

    in other news hawks walked away from arb award to campoli. i guess 2.5 m is too much to pay a guy to hand the opponent break away chances in the playoffs.

  44. chucker says:

    Agreed on that OIB. I am a big fan of Lalime’s days in Ottawa as well.

  45. dawgtoy says:

    J.S Giguere in 2003 winning the Conn Smythe, was another masterpiece of playoff goaltending.

  46. oilinblood says:

    dawgtoy: J.S Giguere in 2003 winning the Conn Smythe, was another masterpiece of playoff goaltending.

    it was the worst series i have ever been witness to. i couldnt watch a full game without falling asleep. the worst final ever played and it lasted 7 fn games. i was almost ready to give up hockey. ever since then the ducks are one of my 2 hated teams. i Never watch a ducks game. horrible hockey.

  47. chucker says:

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2011/07/21/18452621-qmi.html

    Man, I hope this isn’t what I suspect it is.

  48. zackman35 says:

    I really try and stay away from Slam Canoe or whatever you want to call it. I don’t recall a “good” significant story coming from them, only negative things…

  49. chucker says:

    It’s Sun Media which is usually trash/tabloidish, but for sports they are good in my humble view, of coursevtherevare some writers there i do not like. Steve Simmonds being at the top of that list.

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