Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd rounder traded to St. Louis for David Perron

By , July 10, 2013 2:30 pm


Gah.. I loved Paajarvi. Sad to see him go. He wasn’t really a good fit here the past couple years, or at least the Oilers didn’t seem a good fit for his skill set. He did what he had to do to become the player we needed… but I don’t think it was the right situation. SO I think we’re better off with Perron, but I can’t help but worry about this one. Paajarvi could become a very good player in St. Louis (I hope so), and Perron has his concussion issues.

What say you guys about this one?

70 Responses to “Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd rounder traded to St. Louis for David Perron”

  1. dawgtoy says:

    Perron is gritty and has good hands. He could be very good on the second line with Gags and Yak. He’s a right handed left winger to go with Yak, who is a left handed right winger. Perron is a good hockey player and IMO makes the Oilers better today. He plays bigger then his 5’11″ frame, but that has come with concussion issues. Hope he stays healthy.
    I like Maggy and in a perfect world I wish we had them both, but i like this move.

  2. Racki says:

    As Metal&Oil pointed out on twitter, looks like he’s gone about 120 straight games without issue. So while I’d never say concussion issues are behind him, they are not an immediate concern. Concussions never seem to go away though.

    However it turns out that Perron wasn’t a fit for the Blues, like Paajarvi isn’t a fit here. Or perhaps, phrased better.. the Blues weren’t the right fit for Perron, and the Oilers weren’t the right fit for Paajarvi. Their skill sets were a bit wasted. I’m not so sure Paajarvi will fit in with the Blues, but I think he needs another opportunity to let his true skill set shine. Perron will bring a great set of hands to that 2nd line LW. We now have two pretty solid lines. I’d really like to see Gagner upgraded, still.. but it won’t kill me if he isn’t.

    So who’s on 3rd line LW now? Jonesuu? (Jonesuu-Gordon-Jones?)

  3. Metal&Oil says:

    Loved Paajavi’s attitude but love this trade more. I’m also wondering how the negotiations between the RFA and the Oilers were going?

  4. Alan-NottsUK says:

    if Perron and Yakupov are on the same line, that gives whoever is centering them 2 guys who are playing their off wing, should give them a lot of good shooting opportunities, and little opportunity for the goalie to try and cheat to one side in anticipation.

  5. Racki says:

    If the Oilers got that big C I’ve been praying for, I’d be so happy. Would miss Gagner too, but it’s all about the team now.. whatever it takes to get better.

    Sorry, Paajarvi.. I’ll definitely miss you and your awesome, infectious attitude, but the team will be better with Perron, I think. People will really warm up to this trade.

  6. John says:

    First the analytical hockey look; MPS was a 3rd liner in Edmonton, Perron is a good gritty 2nd liner which was a glaring hole in the roster.

    Now for the human element; MPS was a good character guy who was willing to put the team first & will surely be missed in the dressing room. Thanks for everything Magnus :)

  7. hemmerlady says:

    Don’t know what I think yet. Too soon to call. I’ll miss PRV – loved his incredible speed, attitude, sense of humor and, in the past season, some really clutch goals.

    This could be a good pick up – part of me is tempted to be thrilled we have a GM who ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING, but I’m still wondering when we’re going to see more strength at “C”. Tough commodity to come by I guess.

    Best of luck Mags.

  8. oilinblood says:

    Hmmm ill sum it up

    Maggie. 22. maximum 3M. 6’3″ 210 — been told he will be around 220 for camp. Great defensive IQ, skates like the wind, was using his body and crashing the net (using more of a N/S approach). DEVELOPING

    Perron. 25. 3.8M. Battles hard — i say this but yet he loses alot of those battles and takes O-zone penalties constantly. 5’11″ 200, Hitch says defensive IQ is lacking.

    Stats
    Maggie — playing with crap linemates, inconsistent crap linemates, crap TOI and no PP time
    9g 7a

    Perron– playoff team top 6, lots of PP time
    10g 15a 2 ppg 4 ppa a measly 48 hits for a “physical winger”

    nevermind that Perron is a smaller hemsky and loves to carry the puck himself and skate circles for 30 seonds before giving it away. And any thought he has hands is ludicrous. He is a 20-25 goal guy tops. Stickhandle in a phone booth he can but im pretty sure thats what the other 3 top wingers do. hes maxxed out. I dont care about the concussions..he is 5’11″ of course hes going to get corked. He is a pipsqueek. He never gives up but man is he irritating to watch.

    Maggie– young, moulded precisely how we wanted him to be. Developed chemistry with Yaks. Now the second line is at nice elbow level. If i am LA i forearm that entire line out for the year.

    Not tougher, not bigger, not more skilled, and

    you gave up a 2nd rd… which is worth a depth centre, depth dman in the season

    Bravo
    BOLD

    —my faith in MacT is wavering on this one. The top 6 needed a guy who stands in front of the net and plays a N/S game for a guy like yaks to rip pucks. This was what 6’3″ Maggie was doing.

    one side note… Thinking back on samsonov and Hemmer, I do remember thinking that Perron was like a tiny hemsky with less skill. The comparison comes from the fact both are turnover machines in the O-one and both pretty much freeflow where their linemates often have no clue wtf is going on or what to do. Perhaps Hemmer is staying.

  9. Racki says:

    I think Paajarvi had good chemistry with Yakupov. I personally would say .. it’s Yakupov, though. He’s going to have chemistry with pretty much anyone. Paajarvi had 6 points (2G, 4A) at evens with Yak (an extra 2G on PP). I didn’t get a chance to see how many of Yak’s points came with Paajarvi, however.

    As far as “crap linemates”, that was true in the past. Last year his linemates include: Gagner (a lot), Yakupov, Eberle, Nuge and Hemsky. All these guys are big offense players. Generating offense with them should not be an issue (playing defense, however, different story.. save for Nuge).

    As far as quality of competition, no comparison here. Paajarvi typically gets the soft parade. Perron is a player that plays against top competition. This is a huge factor that you aren’t even considering. Perron has more consistent 5 on 5 production than Paajarvi. Paajarvi was good this year, and Perron not so much (but don’t dismiss this to concussion, as the year he returned from concussion was one of his best years, 5 on 5).

    Really, you want that big net presence, but like the Oilers tried, you’re turning Paajarvi into it. Paajarvi does have a good net drive when carrying the puck, but to say he’s a presence in front of the net.. I don’t know so much. He did seem better at this, this year, however, although so did Gagner (considerably). Paajarvi is improving in that area, but I don’t quite consider him tough yet. But he definitely has the size. Maybe for me it’s just that he lacks the mean-ness (not that Perron has it either).

    Anyways, I think you’ll find that Perron will bring a big jump in offense compared with Paajarvi. My concern though (which has yet to be addressed) is the #2C. I still don’t think that Gagner qualifies as a good #2C. Can we upgrade there? Hard to say… doesn’t seem very likely yet.

    As far as Perron’s defensive concerns.. stats guys will quote Corsi here. He’s always been in the positives (regular season, at evens), so it seems he makes up for the deficiencies you speak of.

    Perron, in my mind has some NHL finish, whereas Paajarvi did not. Time will tell here, but don’t shoot it down just yet.

  10. oilinblood says:

    I have watched a tonne of STL. i know what i am getting with Perron. I am not all that excited except for the intensity he brings but that is in comparison to guys already tossed like belanger and horcoff and harti. There are no surprises coming IMO.

    looking at the papers game days and post game days, I stand by my statements. Its all there in the game days.

    That being said Maggie went to the net for yaks hatter in Van, you go to the net and you dontstop. something he was consistently doing. Most of Maggies goals were B lining to the net with or without the puck. For a guy who cheated to the side of defence he did pretty fn good for stats.

    Im not gonna debate because i am sure he goes to STL and does better than perron. he will cover that one goal spread once he gets everything else Perrons stats were padded by…actual NHL roster, Defenseman that know the position at the NHL level, Centres that have NHL skill, puck possession, and 1 1/2 mins of PP.

    My money is on Maggie doing it this year.

    Hasnt anyone seen how similar Perron is to Hemsky with his selfish individual play?

    What amazes me is we sold extremely low on a guy to get a dump player (when we could have sold high on a guy and got an impact player we need). we do it to acquire a guy we have lots of.
    We added a 2nd…which ammounts to a depth centre or dman we will need to acquire during the year.

    Perron wont be missed in STL. Maggie Tarasenk and Steen. Hitch is licking his chops

    I hope NHL players continue to watch the player management of the OIlers and choose not to come here or demand overpay. I hope prospects see it as a curse and see what happens to good soldiers. I hope Maggie asked for this trade. Hitch hates Perron for a reason and now he is in our room.

    LA and SJ and VAN and PHO just laughed their asses off. bottom 2 or 3 in our new conference. No playoffs, more injuries. Enjoy the ride.

    This is what i expect from Perron having watched tonnes of STL… ethan moreau with no size, and hemsky-esque escapades into the offensive zone that end up as takeaways, confused linemates, offensive zone dumb penalties involving lazy stick plays, 20 goals. and considering we did nothing to improve our top 4 defense NOTHING and now lost 2 big assets to acquire that REAL NEED, i say 15 goals is more likely.

    dont get injured boys. our assets to recover are getting slimmer by the day.
    Great trade by STL. get rid of a guy who gave Hitch hunger strikes and was invisible in the playoffs and acuire 2 good assets to an already well built team.

    Maggie was given up… for an asset we dont need and we gave up further assets to obtain that piece. MacT just lost me. Where are the actual pieces we need? This is an ahl team still. get that top 4 to NHL standard and our centres in shape or ship out.

  11. dawgtoy says:

    Not sure i agree with much that OIB says above in both of his negative rants, but he is entitled to voice his opinion. A few points that I don’t understand though.
    Smaller Hemsky? Perron is either listed at 5’11″ or 6′ depending on the website. Hemsky is listed at 6 even, therefore they are either equal in height or Perron is a whopping inch shorter. The difference is negligible in height at best. Hemsky is listed at 184 almost everywhere I’ve referenced; Perron between 200 and 205. The “pipsqueak” in this equation I’d say is NOT Perron, but I suppose that’s my opinion.

    If Hitch states that Perron is lacking in defensive IQ (source?), how is he playing against the best opposition nightly, and furthermore being used on the PK?

    Maggie is a big body on paper. He does not play large, nor does he utilize it effectively. He is starting to realize that he can drive the net, this is when he is most effective, but we have seen such a very small sample size. He has poor hand and has never had a good shooting percentage at any level of his professional career. Paajarvi is trending to be a career third line hockey player. Perron has a 13.5 average over his career. He has excellent hands, stick handling is above average. Described as tenacious in regards to puck retrieval. 14th in the NHL in takeaways (Hall is a 4th surprisingly). A few articles reference that he is underrated defensively. He is not overpaid in comparison to other 2nd line players, and is under contract for three more years, and stoked be coming here.

    My opinion is that Perron could go supernova in Edmonton. He loves to play, he loves to score, and he will be given every opportunity here. I believe he was becoming complaisant in St.Louis, and likely stagnating under Hitch. Some have noted a recent laziness, and a desire to rest on laurels. IMO he reeks of a player that desperately needed a change of scenery, and may just be exactly what the doctor ordered for this hockey club. IF he stays healthy, and if Eakins is the coach I think he is, I can’t wait to see the Oilers top two lines. More work is required, quite frankly the bottom two lines are questionable and gross, but MacT has made some good decisions and excellent moves. This team is getting better. They still lack size. They still need help on D, but I’m finally happy to see results that would lead me to believe that this team is getting better.

  12. Racki says:

    Man I couldn’t have said it better.. that is pretty much spot on with my thoughts. Only thing I’d say is that Paajarvi’s potential is still an unknown. However, I think someone on Oilersnation (?) put it best… it looks like Paajarvi’s potential is Perron… whereas Perron is already there and in his prime at age 25.

    I’ll just wait and see before judging too much, but the stats guys are in love with this.. which says a lot, because typically they seem to hate everything management does. If stats guys love it, chances are that means that it’s because he’s pushing the puck forward. I’ve looked at the stats a bit myself, and I do see that he does have a good…*barf*.. Corsi.

    For me I think you’ve got things all wrong here, OIB… it’s not that we sold Paajarvi low, it’s that we bought Perron low. We bought Perron when Armstrong is desperate to shed salary however he can. Some hockey minds in the media have apparently speculated that if not for the salary issues, they could have gotten more.. but people figure that because GMs knew he was desperate, the offers dropped.

    I do think Paajarvi could be a decent player, but he hasn’t shown that here yet, imho, aside from flashes in his first year. I had high hopes for him, but man, his hands just don’t put the puck in the net, for whatever reason. He was destined to be a 3rd liner her and not much more. He might flourish in St. Louis, and I hope he does because he’s a good kid, but I think Perron will be a better fit. We still need size, and I want that up the middle. I will wait and see on Perron’s battle level though because this is the first I’ve heard that he’s easily pushed around.

    I have been reading comments from the STL press saying he has maturity issues and is regressing though (among some of the other points OIB raised), but a lot of people figure that has more to do with him having problems with the system Hitch has there more than anything. New scenery could do the trick. We’ll see.

  13. oilinblood says:

    Dawgtoy. Yup i was pretty negative about this trade but trying to move on and look forward.
    My opinions are based on full game observations and are my own… I read the novel for the book report, i didnt just read the back flap for a summary. (there is no tone in what i just said, i am not being passive aggressive… just stating my opinions might not be popular but they are my own observations. I watch the games in entirety and these are my conclusions)

    I also realize most oiler fans are on the Perron band wagon and thats fine. FOr Hitches thoughts on Perron just check the game day interviews on HF boards for STL just as you would for every other team. Also watch the games and see TOI management by Hitch and see what his options were for ice time to give to PK and see who was on the ice for the big moments in the playoffs. Ill give you a hint… Perron wasnt on the ice for the big moments. He is NOT trusted. Is he defensively reliable? To an extent id say yes. For the same reason you can give him PK minutes… tell him to DUMP THE PUCK and not skate around with it. He is tenacious and his issues only crop up in the O zone and neutral zone (mainly O zone).Its ice time management by a proper coach. Rest other guys who are effective 5 on 5. In his own zone, more than hemsky… in the O Zone and Neutral zone less than Hemsky (ok that might be sour grapes —id say equal to hemsky for honesty sake). This trade surprised very few STL fans or media, Chris Stewart is their man… and they chose to sign Roy for depth at Centre instead of spend money on another dime a dozen winger. Thats because Playoff teams are built on Centre and Defense. Puck possession.

    His battle level is high. He is intense. He has learned nutrition in the last couple of years and is NOW a fitness fanatic.

    I am hoping his frustrating solo offensive zone expeditions are based on the fact he didnt have gifted linemates and was in a constrictive defensive system. The idea of it being the latter makes me shake my head though since he was allowed to do anything he wanted within the O-zone including give-away the puck and take dumb lazy stick penalties.
    My concern is … I dont like Hemsky for the same reason i dont like Perron. They both make weird decisions in the offensive zone and hang on to the puck way too long. Their linemates often stand still or float because they have no clue what the guy is doing. In all honesty the success rate of Perron is far less than Hemmer. Perron is a guy who will battle infront of the net more than Hemsky but I also think Hemmer went up the middle A LOT more (something i DID/DO respect Hemmer for) than Perron who likes to use his strong wing side and then cut to the net or circle circle circle (familiar) . He WILL drive goalies nuts once possession is worked in the offensive zone. If people think his hands are better than Hemsky they will be let down. The amount of times he scores wiffing is also quite amazing. The finish isnt pin point like others in our lineup. Can he stick handle yes. The guy can stick handle in a phone booth. Can he do much after? He can go to the net and put it right into the goalies pads or circle circle circle. He is great on the boards–something he brings that is better than Maggie was currently. Puck retrieval is likely better now from this trade. But thats without knowing what Maggies training this summer will do. As i said above…it would be interesting if we hang on to hemsky and see these two play together. The possibility reminds me of Hemmer and Sammy in 06/. Both players have seemed to be lone rangers that have linemates constantly shaking their heads wondering wtf.
    Everyone keeps talking about what Perron is SAID to be and giving youtube videos.

    I CAN see how people can assess Perron and say that he could achieve in EDM. Most people are regurgitating this opinion and taking it as their own without knowing the player but i can agree with it. We have an offensive system, we have loads uof up front talent. But we wont be winning draws in the top 6, and it doesnt look like we gained a top end puck distributing dman. Big change from STL there. So… i guess we just have to wait to get the puck back and hope the forwards arent exhauseted by the time they do. Still not close to a playoff team.

    People think you just take a guy and plug him into your lineup. Thats not how hockey works. Look at the Middle for STL and defense. Not even close to comparable with EDM. THAT my friends is PUCK EFFICIENCY and PUCK POSSESSION. Good luck getting anywhere close to that with this team.

    Beyond Perron and Maggie my biggest issue was making a move and giving up assets to acquire a piece that wasnt a need for this team. Looking at the tripod of strength in hockey i look up the middle, and to both defensive sides. Up the middle are 4 question marks to me, and to anyone else i believe there has to be at least 2. The bigger problem is on defense where i really believe we need a NHL RHD who can play a top 4 in a physical shutdown role. These positions will be the season.

    Ive moved on. Ill enjoy seeing Maggie play under hitch the 15 or 20 STL games i catch. I hope Perrons issues in the O zone were based on his linemates lack of talent and not plain stupidity. I hope he blooms in edmonton and can use the other talents for real hockey plays.

  14. Racki says:

    OIB, I have done a bit of reading around lately and I do see a lot of the same sentiment about Perron that you’re saying. I’m not going to read anything much into it yet though, as a lot of the comments were along the lines of.. “he came in at 19 with high expectations and didn’t reach it… but he’s still a good player”… meaning he just didn’t live up to the hype, but he isn’t a bad player. I didn’t see anything re: turnovers, but I did read some stuff on maturity issues, possible laziness and such.

    As far as watching STL, unfortunately I don’t have all the time in the world to watch a team I really have no interest watching.. so you have the one up here, with regards to that. I’m guessing you have no job to dedicate that much time to the Blues! jk :P But seriously, it’s always been a big argument of mine that I hate stats people because they tend to analyse by numbers only and don’t really watch. But it seems they’re right a lot more often than they’re wrong. The ongoing theory has always been that your eyes aren’t always the best judge. But I am skeptical on that.. I think there has to be a balance between watching someone play and analysing the stats after.

    Anyways, it’s possible you are quite right on Perron, but my hopes are that a new team will revive him. This is kind of like how I think Horcoff will be revitalized with the Stars, and Hemsky will be on fire with the next team he plays with (god willing).

    As far as Paajarvi, I’ve watched every single game of his. And if watching 15-20 games of Perron a year is reading the whole novel, then I know the writers thoughts before they hit paper. I do like him and hated to see him go, so I won’t critique him too bad, but I’ve been commenting the past year or two about how the Nords (Paajarvi, Lander, Hartikainen) have severely disappointed. All of them lack NHL hands. Paajarvi looked a bit better this year though, when he seemed to ‘get’ that he has to drive the net. But he’s still not at all there. I think his top end potential here really wasn’t that high. He might thrive under a new team though, so we’ll see.. but here I just didn’t see him as anything other than a 3rd liner, and not a great 3rd liner at that. Basically he was a poor man’s 3rd liner or a 2nd liner passed over by better 2nd line players.. take your pick.

  15. oilinblood says:

    OK OK i want to move on…

    Lets talk some hockey:

    Perron Gagner Yakupov

    This line , as a hockey man, drives me INSANE. Defensemans worst nightmare (for their own team). A centre with only average defensive IQ pivotting two wingers on their open hand sides. That is INSANITY.

    Our defense is going to have a lot of work cut out for them.

    OR
    Do we have them play their strong side for stronger touches and better protected possession? Thoughts?

    ***edit *** Stats mean a bit. I will though say you cant just bring someone into a completely new team and think you can know the outcome. He now has the leagues worst defence and a big drop in quality/consistency for his top 6 pivots. Oh and you might have 2-3 rookies in that d.

    JOY
    Perron COULD, put it together here. I have this feeling he might need the puck on his stick to do it though…instead of on the other teams stick or in our net?
    My opinion. A change of wingers wasnt really our biggest need. This lineup is a bottom 10 finish for sure.

  16. Racki says:

    I honestly blame Gagner for that though, OIB. I am a fan of his, if he was going to play the wing.. but since Perron is here now, I would like him moved in favor of a big center.. or at least someone with 2-way acumen that can win a draw.

  17. oilinblood says:

    http://gifsound.com/?gif=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F27G6VKd.gif&sound=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxhrBDcQq2DM&start=5

    I am with you Rack on moving Gagner…
    I wonder if he could get us Dubinsky and Foligno

    We need to be stronger up the middle. Not a Gagner hater but he is what he is. Just like i dont hate Perron…I was just hoping that once Hemmer was gone id never have to see the circle circle circle, dipsy dangle into corner, routines again.

    I guess what I am asking is two questions.
    1 going back to what i said of Sammy and Hemmer circa 06. What do YOU think the chances are Hemmer plays this season for us? Right now i think he starts the yeAR. As much as i hate this…i now kind of like it since i think Perron and Hemmer will mesh.

    2nd question. Borrowing a page from Oates and every dman that ever screamed “why is that idiot winger on his wrong side!!!!!!!”, do we feel Yaks might be better on his strong side. More protective touches, stronger holds?

    — finally one last observation
    I find Hemsky interesting because he is uncomfortable playing his wrong side on the line up, but yet when the puck is dropped and people are moving and the puck is in play… when he is on his strong wing with the puck he often circles around to the left. When he enters the zone via left of centre or centre… i always feel something big is going to happen because its normally how he approaches to make a real move. Its a tendency of his. He is a machine when he moves left of centre. Its the opposite to the same handed Perron. Perron will circle on his off wing the most but on his strong wing he plays like Eric Cole. This is another reason i think they might work together. They both are basically rovers in my mind. I think i keep Hemsky . But how the hell is this going to work . 3 O lines? If those two click Gordon doesnt have to do anything on a 3rd line but be responsible and cover…act as a 3rd dman who is playing deeper.

    Hall Gagner ***RNH*** Eberle
    ??**Foligno**? Nuge**dubinsky*** Yakupov
    Perron Gordon Hemsky
    Smyth Lander Jones

    hmmm. If someone takes either top wing spot at camp that could be a good offense. They need the puck from a better defense though.
    Can Jones be a puck retrieval and net presence winger for a second line?
    If you see that lineup… with a big body on either of the #2 wings to support yaks and NUge… what line are you going to key on? Thats a pretty crazy lineup. They need the puck though.

    Trying to move on. Trying to see how acquiring a rover who couldnt get chemistry with others, when trying to get rid of our own rover who couldnt get chemistry with others…makes sense.

  18. Racki says:

    Dubinsky is definitely a guy I’d be interested in. I’m not sure CBJ would be willing to move him, but he brings the type of game at center we need. He was phenomenal on the dot last year, and is consistently good (Above 50%) in that regard. I would definitely move Gagner for him if that could be done, but would CBJ, is the question.

    As far as our rover who couldn’t get chemistry with others, I often wonder if Hemsky has just quit on this team, as perhaps Perron quit on his. It’s possible change of scenery do them both good, but that I am skeptical too. But really, I’m done with the Hemsky experiment, by far. He needs to go no matter what. We are selling low, unfortunately, but he’s been a low for quite a while, not thinking that will improve.

    Top 6 of:
    Hall Nuge Eberle
    Perron Dubinsky Yakupov

    Works for me.

    3rd and 4th line still need work, but it likely won’t change given the recent signings

    So it’ll probably be:
    Joensuu Gordon Jones
    Smyth Lander ??

    Possible case to swap Smyth and Joensuu if Smyth pulls his head out of his ass.

  19. dawgtoy says:

    While doing my regular reading in the Oilgosphere today, I noticed a few things that would work IMO to address the bottom six.
    I firstly agree with those that think Steckel would work as a fourth C solution. Lander isn’t ready for prime time. He looked good in OKC down the stretch and into the playoffs, but let him start the season in OKC. An injury to Gordon would also be disastrous. We’ve witnessed that mess last season. He’s a legit fourth line center. Big as a house and can win faceoffs all day.
    Not sure who said it or where I read it, but trading Hemmer for David Moss and a second would further solidify the second line. He played with Gordon last season on what was an excellent third line in Phoenix. He’s big, fast, and likes to shoot. Former Flame so that would just piss them off as well.
    I’d imagine Jones on left with Gordon and Moss would be a very solid third line that could add some much needed secondary scoring. Steckel gives a legit center to the fourth line and could play on third in a pinch. The last spots can be filled out with whoever looks the best in camp through competition. Lander fills in from the farm in case of injury, in the mean time he continues to develop without being thrown to the wolves.

  20. Racki says:

    Aiming a little higher, any chance we could get Vermette instead? He’s pricey (maybe too pricey for a 3rd line), but can play wing or center. That price tag might be a little tough to swallow, but I can’t help but think of injuries as being possible, and it would be good to have a versatile player who can move up/down, wing/center as needed.

    Firmly agree re: Lander.

    Oh, and I’ve always been pretty sold on Steckel. Agree, would be a good player to have here.

  21. oilinblood says:

    @DT- There are a few remaining UFAs that i would be interested in but i figure MacT has already knocked on those doors and has been told to go away.Very interested in Steckel.

    Looking at the new conferences, I dont think travel will be as big of a role in teams declining western teams. Or at least i hope it changed things.

  22. Racki says:

    You’d have to figure that as time wears on, the remaining UFAs get a lot less picky. But I’d imagine Steckel would have a few options for teams.

  23. Alan-NottsUK says:

    oilinblood:
    OK OK i want to move on…

    Lets talk some hockey:

    Perron Gagner Yakupov

    This line , as a hockey man, drives me INSANE. Defensemans worst nightmare (for their own team). A centre with only average defensive IQ pivotting two wingers on their open hand sides. That is INSANITY.

    Yak looked a lot better in his own zone later in the season when he was switched to left wing. Gagner’s defence while not great has improved each and every year, but I wouldn’t want him on that line. Perron seemed to face the toughest competition with St. Louis, Hall’s line will likely get that.

    If there are no move moves made then I’d hope for something like this.

    Hall – Gagner – Eberle
    Perron – RNH – Yakupov

    Gagner works better as a 3rd wheel which he would be with Hall and Ebs

    RNH dishing off to 2 guys with great shots playing on their off wing could see him explode offensively. Also last year RNH showed a huge step in his defensive play

    If no major moves are made then I’d like to see the Oilers re-sign smithson just for his faceoff ability, it would be beneficial for RNH & Gags to be able to practice with 2 guys who seem to be able to go 55%+ on faceoffs.

  24. Racki says:

    I do agree that those lines make the most sense. As much as we likely want to continue building chemistry between Hall, Nuge and Ebs, we know that Gagner with Hall and Eberle are explosive, so it will generally take away that defensive liability concern. I’d imagine that while they’ll play top competition, they’ll generally do it starting in the O-zone. So that will help.

  25. Racki says:

    Switching gears here…

    There is more talk about the Oilers interest in Dion Phaneuf, this time coming from Bill Watters, former Assitant GM of the Leafs. You can read more about it on the EJ.

    I personally think scooping up Phaneuf would instantly improve this team. I know a lot of people hate him as a person (I do too), but as a hockey player you have to realize that he’s playing the hardest minutes in Toronto right now and putting up pretty good numbers. He’s the scapegoat there though. He plays the toughest competition of all d-men there, and he has one of the hardest zone starts as well (thanks to Lowetide for that info).

    I think pairings of either:
    Phaneuf Petry
    Smid Jultz
    Belov Ference

    or

    Smid Petry
    Phaneuf Jultz
    Belov Ference

    Would make this team a much better, NHL-caliber team. I think whichever pairings they went with, you have a good balance of defensive abilit and offensive ability (trust me when I say Petry’s abilities at the NHL level are untapped as of yet). Each has a defenseman on it that could be described as a shutdown d-man.

    I think looking at that, I can handle it if we never got that big #2C and Gagner stuck around still (in fact I’d love that) and played on the top line.

  26. Alan-NottsUK says:

    radio in Vancouver team 1040(I think)said the Flyers and Islanders were interested in Gagner.

    If you trade with Philly then you have to push for one of either B. Schenn or Couturier coming back.

  27. Racki says:

    I think they’re probably still talking Coburn.. but I’d love either of those centres, especially Schenn.

    But maybe they could work out a deal that involved Gagner plus and swindle Schenn AND Coburn out.. damn, how nice would that be, so long as it didn’t involve moving anyone too talented (save for Gagner). What would it take? i say now our 2014 1st should be available, for one…

    Ok i’ll upgrade my dream package and throw in Talbot too. ahah. Now what are we giving up? I imagine either trade isnt possible without losing someone we really like though.

  28. Metal&Oil says:

    I just finished reading the Phaneuf post on Lowetide and I am 100% in favor of bringing Dion here if the price is N. Schultz + . 

    1) Bringing Dion here IMO instantly bring our D core from a question mark to a strength(with the depth we would have).

    2) I don’t think that Dion the person is nearly as bad as he is made out to be. Really when ppl say he is an immature punk I think they are talking about the Dion of 5 years ago. He is 28 now, is married and from some interviews I saw of his from this past season I sensed a new found maturity.

    Are ppl not allowed to grow up and not have their past thrown in his face? There are many professional athletes out there who have done far worse then Dion has who still hold better reputations then Dion does.

  29. Racki says:

    Some never grow up.. see Sean Avery. But it’s possible that Phaneuf did. I would hope so.

  30. Racki says:

    So Bob Stauffer says a “non-Oilers management type” told him that he thinks Perron will be liberated by moving away from Hitch’s system like Patrick Sharp apparently was when he was traded from Philly (formerly coached by Hitchcock as well). Interesting thought.. if Perron played as well for the Oil as Perron does for the Hawks.. damn would we be lucky fans. I hope for his (and our) sake he does.

  31. Bostonoiler says:

    Been awhile since I last commented haha, but I’m glad some others agree that Dion would be a good addition! I think he would totally turn our defense into a borderline strength and finally give us that minute munching top pairing guy. I think the Leafs are trying to move him too, and quite frankly I don’t understand why.

  32. Racki says:

    It’s a Horcoff thing, I think. He’d be a good fit in a specific role on a lot of teams, but because of that big contract, people expect the world from him, and now every little mistake is amplified. That’s as best as I can figure.

    Roberto Luongo is a good example of this too. This is why playing in a Canadian city is stressful as hell for a lot of players. If you aren’t playing like a champion 100% of the time, then you’re an overpaid bum.

  33. John says:

    Racki:
    I think they’re probably still talking Coburn.. but I’d love either of those centres, especially Schenn.

    But maybe they could work out a deal that involved Gagner plus and swindle Schenn AND Coburn out.. damn, how nice would that be, so long as it didn’t involve moving anyone too talented (save for Gagner). What would it take? i say now our 2014 1st should be available, for one…

    Ok i’ll upgrade my dream package and throw in Talbot too. ahah. Now what are we giving up? I imagine either trade isnt possible without losing someone we really like though.

    That would be friggin awesome if they could swing Schenn & Coburn! Price would likely be Gagner + 20141st pick + Petry or NSchultz I would guess. Even if you had to throw in a nother later pick as well like 4th or 5th I would still do that deal.

    Those 2 players would be huge for solidifying the center ice & defensive core of this team

  34. Racki says:

    I think it would take Gagner + 1st + Petry to do it (I’d assume), but yah, I’d probably do it. I would be hesitant giving up Petry though, just cause good RHD are typically hard to find. So while we’re bringing in a good LHD, we’re also making a hole at RHD.. but maybe it opens the door for another younger player.. I dunno. Getting Schenn would be beyond ideal though.

    I’d probably make the top line Hall-Schenn-Eberle…. seems like they’d click well. Line 2 would be Perron-Nuge-Yakupov. There’d be a lot of room to shuffle the top six.

    Also, I’d tell Holmgren he can have Petry if he also adds in Max Talbot. And done… bottom six also improves some.

  35. john says:

    Racki:
    I think it would take Gagner + 1st + Petry to do it (I’d assume), but yah, I’d probably do it. I would be hesitant giving up Petry though, just cause good RHD are typically hard to find. So while we’re bringing in a good LHD, we’re also making a hole at RHD.. but maybe it opens the door for another younger player.. I dunno.Getting Schenn would be beyond ideal though.

    I’d probably make the top line Hall-Schenn-Eberle…. seems like they’d click well. Line 2 would be Perron-Nuge-Yakupov. There’d be a lot of room to shuffle the top six.

    Also, I’d tell Holmgren he can have Petry if he also adds in Max Talbot. And done… bottom six also improves some.

    Dare to dream… dare to dream *sighhhh*!

  36. oilinblood says:

    A-NUK; regarding lines, i agree that is as good as you can get with those players. As you quoted my concerns, those lines negate some of the obvious issues from two wingers playing open handed. Centre looks really weak but we wont be in the playoffs anyways.

    As for Dion; i only really have two concerns about acquiring him. More concerns would have to be dealt with once we did acquire him. First concern is… I think our right side is weaker than left. A 20 minute Body crunching RHD is a priority IMHO. If we go out to get Dion… we need to have something on the table for either Smid or NSchultz for a RHD or centre.
    I have never really questioned Dions ability as a top d-man. I just question whether i want to pay a certain price for a position thats not a priority and a guy with one year left until free market. Is he an upgrade yes, but terrible organizations upgrade positions and leave other key positions vacant or led by hacks. this is the edmonton oilers. This is why they arent relevant to discussion about things like success.
    He might be at a price i am simply not wanting to pay. I think this is why Stauffer has been quite clear –during the Watters interview and other situations– that he has heard NOTHING about the oilers and Dion.

    When i look at the Oilers i see areas in need of improvements and areas where we have ABSOLUTEY NOTHING at an NHL level. We have a lot of VOIDS. Apparently we plan to fill them, as per usual, with players who havent played pro hockey on north american ice , in a completely different system, with completely different players, totally immersed in a completely different culture. Handing jobs over to guys who have proven nothing = shitty laughing-stock team.
    Certainly not the game plan of successful franchises.

    So, although Dion is a guy i would certainly like on my team. .. i think our Right side has a HUGE freaking void that is obvious enough BEFORE INJURIES happen.
    Is Dion-Smid-Ference a better left side than Smid-NSchultz Ference? Yes. Its quite possibly perfect. But that Petry-JSchultz-AHL bum on the right… looks like it could easily cripple the club (and thats even with a healthy lineup…wait until this team does the annual drop like flies to the IR).
    My second team — and really starting to become my 1st since they turned things around fast and built themselves intelligently– are the Bs and Ference CAN play Right but i wouldnt have him over there full time. A well run team has him on the left. Again though this is the oilers and theyve run a circus for a long time so fans are confused as to what a hockey team really looks like—which is why in the papers fans would be happy to play with 6 leftys.Now i know most people, including yourself, on this board understand the game. We have discussed it many times and i remember making a long thread on the OMB back in the day, that you contributed to, which was an in-depth assessment of handedness issues in hockey for wingers, centers, d and goalies. How coaches use a players handedness, how players need to change their games, problems created, ways to cover for those problems. Not everyone has played organized hockey in a competitive league where coaches fine tune this stuff and where as players any weakness shown was tactically ripped apart by the opposition. I understand i cant ask typical fans to understand the tactical difference of playing open handed on defense… or the issues it creates in real world moments of d to d passing, stick position leveraging/directing, and board play. However i am pretty certain i can ask a goddamn employed GM in the NH-fukkin-L to understand the damn basics of physiology and hockey. Its kind of a prerequisite. *deep breath*. This is one reason i love MacT and feel he might start slow but he should know how to get this team into proper shape–or at least what proper shape looks like. He was always a man of proper d alignment and having centre hand options. The only time he would get away from these things were if he needed to manage a players time due to injury/fatigue, tactical advantage, or sending a message to KLOW that he needed better players (putting pisani at centre, scott yzerman fraser on 1st line wing, or penner in the press box).
    we also have no 2nd rd pick for 14, which is the most moved leverage chip in trades. yay. come the annual dec and jan evaluation and selling spree, along with our annual sell out of tickets for attendence on our IR list thats big.

  37. oilinblood says:

    Racki:
    I think it would take Gagner + 1st + Petry to do it (I’d assume), but yah, I’d probably do it. I would be hesitant giving up Petry though, just cause good RHD are typically hard to find. So while we’re bringing in a good LHD, we’re also making a hole at RHD.. but maybe it opens the door for another younger player.. I dunno.Getting Schenn would be beyond ideal though.

    I’d probably make the top line Hall-Schenn-Eberle…. seems like they’d click well. Line 2 would be Perron-Nuge-Yakupov. There’d be a lot of room to shuffle the top six.

    Also, I’d tell Holmgren he can have Petry if he also adds in Max Talbot. And done… bottom six also improves some.

    You got to be thinking we are shopping N Schultz pretty hard.

    I think the Flyers are more willing to give up Couts than Schenn right now. I dont think Schenn would be available.
    Sarich would have been a decent signing on the RH side. Would have made some deals easier to handle, certainly. I am still holding on to a glimmer of hope that the Bs will still be running for Yandle and part with Boychuk if they can make the acquisition. They are strong in d prospects, G prospects and C and W prospects. They have no holes in their lineup and IMHO got better in a CJ, system, way when they traded Seguin.
    Chia is a plain old good business man. I love watching him work the team. Its smooth as silk. No Horton? No Tim Thomas? meh. Ill fix that.

    Not saying every GM has to go out and get their Franchise D-man, Franchise centre, Franchise Goalie and 2 Franchise wingers (a 3rd franchise winger -kessel which was flipped for 3 top end talents in the long term…which has had one asset sold high to receive an equal asset plus 2 more high end prospects thus giving them now 4 mouth-watering prospects and one known high value contributor from one asset) in their first 2 weeks on the job …giving up no assets that were being used in the NHL (and one that wasnt in the top 30 in his position)…but it would be a nice goal to had. Not every GM starts with a completely gutted mess of a team like Chia did either.
    As Chia said, its pretty obvious when you get to a team that you look down the middle and on the back end. The wings dont matter until later. good centres and d will make bad wingers look good. Its like Doug Weight. You can put dean McAmmond on Weights wing or Guerin. Weight will get Dean to 25 goals over a full season, or Zdeno Ciger, and if you are smart you ca flip those guys high to some sucker and make out like a bandit and re-load your team. Put Guerin on Weights team and you have a 40-50 goal guy but an easier team to defend and more expensive re-signing. AK-UKs lines might have Perron benefit from RNH -get his stock up- ditch him for a real position of power. Defense, Goal and Centre is the only way to succeed. GMs either know this, employ it or enjoy irrelevance. Spending assets on a winger when you dont have a foundation? thats treading water by a sucker GM. Focus of assets should always been on the Foundation positions.

    That being said I think Hall might be one of those rare wingers that can be the catalyst.

  38. oilinblood says:

    Bostonoiler:
    Been awhile since I last commented haha, but I’m glad some others agree that Dion would be a good addition! I think he would totally turn our defense into a borderline strength and finally give us that minute munching top pairing guy. I think the Leafs are trying to move him too, and quite frankly I don’t understand why.

    Got to figure its mainly a media thing. I cant see how they can say he underachieved last season. His contract is big and he is on the last year of a contract but he did pretty f-n good considering the chumps he played half the season with.

    I disagree with Rack, who thinks Dion fits roles, and would say in my opinion Dion IS a true #2 Dman and I dont think we will have a true #1 for a real long time and havent even had a true #2 for longer. I think he iss good in all situations. i do not however believe that he has ever played a full season in Toronto with a solid d partner. The numbnuts they pair him with are rediculous. In fact Petry is likely better than anyone that has played with Dion regularly over his entire TOR tenure.

  39. Racki says:

    oilinblood: AK-UKs lines might have Perron benefit from RNH -get his stock up- ditch him for a real position of power. Defense, Goal and Centre is the only way to succeed. GMs either know this, employ it or enjoy irrelevance. Spending assets on a winger when you dont have a foundation? thats treading water by a sucker GM. Focus of assets should always been on the Foundation positions.

    Without a doubt, MacTavish has already been shopping for a center. Everyone knows, it’s damn hard to get one except if you catch a lucky break, such as the Sharks with Thornton, or Dallas with Seguin, etc. I’m sure he’ll keep it near the top of his list… it’s arguable whether the team needs a top 1 or 2 D more, or if they need a center more. Both are extremely important. I personally think we can fake it with the D for a bit with what we have, for now, in hopes that eventually Nurse or Klefbom or someone comes into the lineup on fire down the road. A center.. there’s really no hope there for quite some time (other than Nuge, but his fault on the dot could be tough on the team).

    And yes, no brainer that the Flyers would shop Couturier over Schenn. But Schenn is the type the Oilers really could need, so I’d be willing to pay a fair bit more than for Couturier (as fine of a player he is.. Schenn has that Hall/Eberle-esque drive, and you just can’t fake that).

  40. Alan-NottsUK says:

    as mad as it seems I think i’d prefer couturier over schenn, he’s already a solid defensive player. He’s not really had a chance to play with any offensive minded players yet either.

    The fact he would also be cheaper to acquire just makes it more appealing for me.

  41. Racki says:

    This will make for an interesting debate but I’d take Schenn over Couturier myself. But you are right, the asking price on Couturier will be lower and maybe more manageable, while Couturier still helps address need. But ya, if given the choice, I take Schenn though.

    It’d be interesting to know who I’d want in 5 years from now

  42. Racki says:

    http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/19/hitch-talks-perron

    Hitchcock: “Him and I had a good relationship because I really respected the fact that he was coming back from a significant injury. I really felt like he was a guy that when you had him on the ice, you were one step away from scoring a goal all the time.He was a dangerous player offensively, so the other team was always on edge against him.”

    Excellent quote and good vote of confidence from his former coach.

  43. hemmerlady says:

    5.5 is a little crazy. Though overpaying is rampant throughout the league. Wow though.

  44. john says:

    I guess this could end the Couturier or Schenn discussion!

    http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=678559

  45. Racki says:

    Not really.. still unlikely to be available, but not a definite no lol

    That’s a nice cheap deal though for a guy who could be good in a couple years (although its only a 2 year deal).

  46. Alan-NottsUK says:

    all it does is increase his trade value, a good way for them to get assets at the draft next year.

    As for Gagner asking 5.5 in arb, the Oilers are apparently going to say 3.5, so around 4.5 would be expected as the result, seems kind of fair value.

    I think a 5 year deal at around 4.2 could be reached using comparables around the league this year. Though I do think some form of limited NTC would have to be included for that to happen sadly

  47. john says:

    Racki:
    Not really.. still unlikely to be available, but not a definite no lol

    That’s a nice cheap deal though for a guy who could be good in a couple years (although its only a 2 year deal).

    True, wouldn’t be the first time a team gave a player a contract then shipped him out of town. That’s how we got Vishnovsky I think! A lot of speculation around the rest of the league however that Philly chose to re-up Couturier at a decent deal to sneak under the cap & then deal Schenn since he would be a higher cap hit & will inevitably bring higher trade value.

    Either way, there’s 3 guys in Philly that could be nice pieces for the Oilers to attain so I’m confident that MacT can get something done, only question is cost.

  48. Racki says:

    Oh I wish Schenn is available. I reall ylike him. Again, it’s more because of that compete level he has than any of his skill he’s shown to date.

    And yes, we obtained Visnovsky before his new deal kicked in (which had a NTC or NMC, but it didn’t kick in yet). I don’t believe Couturier has a NTC/NMC, so he could be traded at any time without his permission.

    As for Gagner.. I think the Oilers would have done the deal if Gagner would accept $4.5M (my hunch, anyways).. so I’m guessing he’s being very firm about being at least above $5M.

    $4.2M would be GREAT, and I would even give a limited NTC to obtain him at that price, even though it’s typically against the Oilers’ policy to do that.

  49. Alan-NottsUK says:

    apparently the Oilers offered 4.5m on a multiyear deal.

    Guess it’s looking like closer to 5m for a multiyear deal now, which because of the new salary retention in trades thing isn’t the end of the world but could still bite the team in the ass in terms of salary structure.

  50. Racki says:

    With less than ten mins to go to hearing, Oilers and Gagner reached a deal. $4.8m cap hit for 3 years with nmc/ntc that kicks in year 2.not perfect, but works for me. Just glad he’s not a ufa next season

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