Lets get a defibrillator running…

By , August 15, 2012 2:19 pm

Sinclair making Solo her bitch


Despite what anyone may think, we are indeed still alive and kicking in this little corner of the internerd. Unfortunately, it is the worst part of the year for hockey so there really isn’t much to say.

That said, there have been a couple items that popped up lately, so lets give them a little looksie and banter pointlessly about them in order to occupy ourselves until something real happens.

Hall and Eberle Extensions
Apparently the Oilers are looking into extending both Hall and Eberle to extensions in the near future (Omark also hasn’t signed his QO, but that’s a footnote). There was some discussion of Kane/Toews, Skinner and Tavares as comparables. Basically anywhere from 5.5 to 6.5 per, over 5-6 years.

If I were their agents, I’d be pushing for a deal to get done before the CBA gets renewed, knowing that the owners want to get rid of the big jump on the second deal. I’d also be tempted to get a deal done if I were the Oilers, just thinking of locking them up for a longer term than may be allowed in any new CBA.

Honestly though, I’m betting both get similar deals to Skinner. How that sets us up going forward I’m not sure yet.

CBA
Speaking of the new CBA, the players just came back to the owners with what seems to be a very reasonable counter offer to the backhanded offer the owners offered.

I’m fully behind the players in these negotiations. I think the offer the owners tabled was ridiculous, and if I were a player I’d tell them to fuck off as I was leaving the table. Luckily, they are smarter than I am and countered with what sounds to be a reasonable deal.

I know people keep saying that the players are overpaid, but really…in my mind they are the best 700 in the world at their job and should be paid appropriately. Further, I think they should get more than 57% of revenue as we all go to see them. It’s not their fault the owners want more and more money. And personally, blaming Bettman makes no sense as he just does what the owners want. I’m not sure he really has any autonomous power.

Hopefully they can get a deal worked out so we don’t have a lockout.

Yay Canada!
Finally, Canada. The U-20 kids just beat the russians in the Canada/Russia challenge (although it was closer than the last one that Gagner was a part of). Makes you wonder if we are getting to a few down years in Canadian talent (goaltending certainly seems to be suffering), or if it’s just that the Russians are bringing a better team.

And the Olympics. Won’t lie, I’m a big olympics fan. And I must say I’m pretty happy with how Canada did. Pretty good for the population base + the fact that we are 95% winter. Only shitty thing is we kinda got jobbed on a few sports. Obviously Canada/USA soccer is the most well known, but that boxer dude got robbed as well. And the 4x100m. Gotta feel for those guys. Either way, felt proud of how they represented the country and you can’t ask for more than that.

And that’s all…back to your regularily scheduled programming (Eskies and Seahawks for me!)

10 Responses to “Lets get a defibrillator running…”

  1. oilinblood says:

    as far as CBA, i have a very different take. I am not buying into the easy PR/MR by the NHLPA. Interesting to have a completely different approach to the issues but if this was their month and a half counter proposal, and one that isnt of wide enough breadth to count as an actual proposal, than the union has wasted a month and a half and it will be another week before the two sides dialogue.
    Lets be clear on one thing; Fehr is doing his job as the players want him to. He is performing the process as the players see fit. I think you have to go back to Eagleson to see why there have been so many issues for the players and why internal motions have been so time consuming and convoluted. From a legal stand point the union is still a major joke. Having 30 guys in the negotiating room is laughable and having to talk to each player or 2/3 of the membership everytime something crops up…is also comic. But this is where Eagleson has put the mindset of the players, a name and a history that Bob Goodenow brought up very often. So when a guy like Paul Kelly has conversations with the league in advance to negotiations and seems to be communicating better with the league rather than his own players alarm bells go off. Donalds job has been to involve the players in every step of the way. He has been known as a good communicator but this is over kill. This is also the source of irritation to the league. They were trying to get cba meetings going during the allstar break of 2011, union said no, meetings during summer 2011 union said no, january 2012, union said no, all star break, no. During that period of time Donald was getting to know the ideas of his constituents. In his own admittance the PA thinks everyone needs to be involved in all the facets of negotiations. This is where your negotiating partner starts seeing you as a moron and the nhlpa as a circus but i am sure Bettman and daly undertsand WHY the players, based on their history, feel the need to have their say -as uneducated as it may be- and for the process to be fully transparent and witnessed. Again it isnt the players fault this has become a circus, you can understand their paranoia, but it doesnt change the fact it is one.

    Garys job, is far worse than Donald. The NHLPA and Fehr have to go through a staggering amount of communication to get ideas from their mostly uneducated constituents (maybe 15-30 of 700 have a post-graduate and not sure how many of those would have it in an area worthwhile –and i dont mean that as insulting to them just fact of where their training and time is spent and the comic aspect of getting their opinions on a legal and economic process). Gary, on the other hand, has to deal with 10 full fledged morons and not have the bigger plan of the group ruined by those idiots. His take on the current CBA was, as all labor bodies know, a work in progress and is using the current model to adapt for proposals. By admitting the system is not working he leaves himself open to the Union happily insinuating the Cap can stay and might be what is wrong with the league. Fehrs delivery of this thought at the presser was well rehearsed. The owners got a cap, we took it to get back to hockey, they want to keep it, we like it, but… it may be the issue (as he adds that we certainly would prefer that each team spend to the ability of their organization–no cap).
    Its a process, like all legal matters, but it is what it is, and when you ask 500-700 guys what they think upon every turn and ask for their input… well 2012-13 is not going to happen. Owners dont own a business to lose money or run a charity, they dont do it for the sake of you and i, and they will make money whether we choose to boycott them or not. If they have to shut down for the season and go into hibernation they will. the only reason to own a for-profit business is to …make profit.

    Lets be clear here though. there is no bad side to this. Donald is doing what he has been hired to do and the processes he has been told are part of his position and directive. Gary, on the other hand, has been given his list of grievances against the current system by his bosses the BOG. He is then provided full power and authority to deal as he must to get those problems fixed. Two entirely different processes, with the NHLs system being the norm. The obvious irritation Bettman is showing is to the NHLPAs procedures but NOT towards the attitudes in the boardroom negotiations.

    I suspect we wont be playing in 2012-13. this process is looking ASININE. a month and a half to get a 30 minute presentation that the league could easily go over in a few hours. yup. cancel the year.

    Also i like watching the proceedings because you have people talking about the offers that dont know the offers, you have people who are already skewing words (when i say “people” i am referring to reporters, hacks etc performing the coverage) when taking a fehr or bettman statemtn and using it back to the other party in a question. If anyone still gets bothered by Bettmans annoyance at reporters and his “arrogance” you should pay attention to the pressers and how reporters ask stupid uestions and bring up the other parties statements inaccurately.
    From the proceedings the only “commentary” one can make is about the simplicity of the proposals, and the actual procedures of the negotiating and of the individual sides. One can also venture to state just how slow and convoluted this process is showing itself to be…and once placing that realization into context of time needed to get an agreement it could be staggering.

  2. oilinblood says:

    my personal opinion is that the system works. i am a free market man. the new CBA should focus on the escape hatches of contracts. drop the share to 50/50 and that EVEN if a player retires…they get the money of the contract. The player signed the contract to play until 41 fine, they play until 41. They are contracted to. The team has to pay out every cent and can not send a player to the minors. Player unfit to play? monthly medicals to clear him when ready. Fine him if he doesnt play when ready. Now those teams signing guys to 15 year contracts might think twice.
    Everyone will probably say you cant do it.
    actually you can and its done in almost all other professions. you finish your contract or get sued.

    Any contract over 3 years is ineligible for demotion to other leagues unless it was signed as a 2 way contract, BUT the cap hit still hits the team if over a certain amount AAV above a fringe players AAV.

    no major changes beyond getting rid of escape clauses. players paid every cent of every contract. players play every game they are cleared to as obligated by length and term of their signed contract. agreements are agreements. both parties said theyd play until 43. fine. you have a guaranteed nhl job until 43.

    ELCs- 3 years
    UFA 27 or 7 years of NHL exp. MINIMUM of 5 years exp. Collegiate players.
    no limit on contract length or term.
    AAV is judged same as now and is the unavoidable cap hit.
    PA can take over supplemental
    Olys 2014 NHL participates

  3. Metal&Oil says:

    So if the season is lost then the Oilers would have a very good shot at Nathan Mackinnon if they use the same system that got Crosby into a Pens uniform.

  4. Racki says:

    That’s just what the Oilers need.. a 4th 1st overall pick. LOL (sarcasm) You’d have to figure they’d consider trading the pick or trading one of their top guys. But it’s funny that this would actually be a bit of a possibility. I don’t see the season being completely trashed though. Bettman says they’re still a ways apart. And really, negotiations are slow. I think things probably aren’t that bad, but it is a SLOW process… going back, reading over a proposal, and then drafting a new one.

  5. oilinblood says:

    Its pretty bad Rack. The fact the union never even had a proposal in mind before negotiating is rediculous (and not IMO Fehrs fault nor plan). I am mind boggled how anyone can blame the owners if there is a lockout. You never even had a proposal? this is mindboggling unprofessional. Then you spend a month and a half of bargaining time to come up with an entirely new system which will be thrown right out the window –today or two years from now. I can honestly see this process taking at LEAST a year right now. they are well prepared for it.

    In essence though i dont feel big changes need to be made. The issue is really that people are going around and finding ways to escape bad decisions and thus are getting inherently more stupid with their contracts. The system should not have outs. The full contract is held as… a legal contract. Both parties must live up to every cent and every hour agreed and are held accountable to the Cap rules. Problems solved. mess up? your f*ed. sanity will hit pretty fast. want to retire? too bad, like every other industry you signed a term contract and will be sued up to the full value of the entire contract for breach (last 3 years of worked value is often what courts decide as reasonable punishment for breaching). done. no problems.
    NTC’s — players and team can not trade player for any reason…even if player wants to void it. it can not be voided. period.
    NMC’s— any contract over 3 years can not have the player demoted to a lower league under any circumstance and is guaranteed a roster spot. no waivers, no movement.

    —-
    the simplest idea. the players are bound to the contract in the same way the owners have always been. word for word. dollar for dollar. ounce of flesh for ounce of flesh.

    now that NHL proposal doesnt look so bad to the players.

    the players simply didnt get the memo that the cba expired on sept 15th 2012 or were under the impression their invitation to bargain during the season last year was open to this year. Players looking dumber than ever (if possible). sometimes i wonder how they manage to dress themselves. its a tough life for them i know. *tear*

  6. chucker says:

    A nice pic would have been the Dutch women’s field hockey team. Just sayin.

    I think we start in December at the very earliest. Just the way they both have to slap their dicks on the table in the next few weeks….it’s premature to presume an early season is coming. *drum roll/cymbal*

    I thunk both sides have some definite non-starters and it will take some time for each to give a bit. I think UK Allen had it estimated about right on what will eventually happen, but I do not see this deal getting done without a little scrappiness. There are way to many teams that are in trouble because they are above what the ceiling started at and they are floor teams. Remember it was only a few years ago that a 50 mill payroll was what the rich teams were carrying and small market teams were in the 20s.

    I know revenue has grown, but most of that is with teams that had no issues before anyway. Try to get Toronto or NYR or even us to fork over more because Garry wants to keep teams in Phoenix and Nashville. My guess is the majority of owners want nothing to do with more revenue sharing. Bettman has a rift in the owners and a players union that sees skyrocketing revenue and previously bankrupt or supposedly bankrupt teams (Minnie and NJ) paying squillions to guys who are not even top ten in their positions (except Kovalchuk pre-Devils).

    Gonna be some hardball going on.

  7. Alan-NottsUK says:

    Metal&Oil:
    So if the season is lost then the Oilers would have a very good shot at Nathan Mackinnon if they use the same system that got Crosby into a Pens uniform.

    Not true, we’d have some of the worst odds, we’ve picked number 1 3 years running, we’d have the same chance as teams that have made the playoffs the last 3 years, Calgary would be one of the team with the best chance.

  8. Racki says:

    Yah you’re right.. we’d have one ball in the barrell due to having drafted #1 3 years running (1 ball lost for each #1 overall pick). There would be teams with three balls in there. So yah.. we’d have a shitty shot at it. But I really don’t think we really need another #1, nor could we realistically afford it.

    I’m all about Curtis Lazar in 2013 anyways! :P

  9. chucker says:

    Racki:
    Yah you’re right.. we’d have one ball in the barrell due to having drafted #1 3 years running (1 ball lost for each #1 overall pick). There would be teams with three balls in there. So yah.. we’d have a shitty shot at it. But I really don’t think we really need another #1, nor could we realistically afford it.

    I’m all about Curtis Lazar in 2013 anyways!

    Also, Patrick Thoresen only has one ball. Just wanted to clear that up.

  10. Alan-NottsUK says:

    Based on the previous rules, 1 ball taken for each playoff appearance in the last 3 years or 1st overall pick in the last 4 years. Draft would then snake.

    Oilers odds are 1/49

    3 Balls:

    -Calgary
    -Carolina
    -Columbus
    -Dallas
    -Minnesota
    -Toronto
    -Winnipeg

    2 Balls:

    -Anahiem
    -Colorado
    -Florida
    -NYI
    -St Louis

    1 Ball:

    -Boston
    -Buffalo
    -Chicago
    -Detroit
    -Edmonton
    -Los Angeles
    -Montreal
    -Nashville
    -New Jersey(though they wouldn’t have a 1st round pick due to the Kovalchuk contract)
    -NYR
    -Ottawa
    -Philadelphia
    -Phoenix
    -Pittsburgh
    -San Jose
    -Tampa Bay
    -Vancouver
    -Washington

    What could happen and it would be damn funny, is the Devils win the lottery and their first pick is #59 because they have to forfit their 1st this coming season.

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