Captain Obvious

By , October 6, 2010 10:48 am
Lucky #13... Horcoff becomes the 13th Captain in Oilers history

Lucky #13... Horcoff becomes the 13th Captain in Oilers history

This is almost anti-climatic, as we all figured he should get it. But they don’t always get these things right. Congrats to the 13th captain in Oilers history. Hopefully that number is more lucky for him. I predict some “ditch the captain” posts before long in other forums/blogs… but I’ve always been a big support of Horcules.

The Edmonton Oilers have named Shawn Horcoff as their new captain, making him the 13th player to wear the “C” since the team joined the NHL in 1979.

The 32-year-old centre is entering his 10th NHL season, all with the Oilers. Drafted in the 4th round (99th overall) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft, the 6’1”, 208 pound native of Trail, British Columbia has scored 374 points (133G, 241A) with 417 penalty minutes in 637 career games.

Is Horcoff the best choice for Captain?

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25 Responses to “Captain Obvious”

  1. mrgod2u says:

    Horcoff gets the C

  2. Racki says:

    Thanks for the heads up.. this is new thread worthy.. time to get a C added to my jersey ;)

  3. mrgod2u says:

    I am a huge Horcoff-hoper. I do think that he needs to earn the money this season. If he has another bad season but with the “C” on it will make the contract even worse. He has looked good preseason, and seems back on his game. Hopefully we see him return to form. IMHO his heart and leadership were never the big question, but his glaringly bad numbers and big paycheque set a bad example to the young guns.
    So anyway, lets all hope this is a turning point for him.

  4. mrgod2u says:

    Just to be clear because some may recall me railing against his past performance. I like Horcoff the player, I Hate his performance per salary.

  5. NorwegianOiler says:

    I expected him to be named, frankly, having already put the “C” on my NHL11-version of Horcs, but I’m unsure if I’m really for it irl. Given that he’s struggled so badly, I’d have hoped they’d just go with 3 alternates – leaving Horcs without the added pressure of a captaincy. Then again, if they wanted a captain, there’s not a lot of candidates out there. Could have gone with a CHI, PIT, CAR, WSH style and named Hall or Eberle though, wouldn’t that have been special :P

  6. oilinblood says:

    I really like this move. Horcoff has been mismanaged and the rest of his career will suffer for it. Horcoff was able to post good numbers when he had 2 other centres who could be counted on to provide defensive help (stoll and reasoner). Since their departure and then the riddance of the only other centre capable of Centre responsibilitys in Brodziak, Horc has played on one shoulder doing mainly defensive work and cleaning up from centres who cant play the position and likely will never be able to.

    Horcoffs offensive success is reliant on how well Gags can play pivot this year, how well Fraser can contribute and Renney jettisoning players who cant play their position rather than over working someone to wipe their butts.

    Horcoff will have enough butt wiping to do in covering for the two golden boys. Its a job Horcs will certainly take pride in but it will be an attack on Horcoff and Ebs and Hall if Horcoff is made to cover for all the other stinkers. Gags has to do it on his own now or be traded. Cogs has to be traded, waived or moved permanently to wing if he cant contribute and win draws – a fundamental responsibility of a pivot.

    Horcoff deserved captaincy for a long time. I am happy for him and i am of the belief that Renney and Tambi will be moving players who are proven to be weak at their positions. It is now the second contract for Cogs and Gags, no excuses. If they mess up its on them.

    Horcoff on the ice, i expect will no longer be overworked in defensive situations… as renney seems to want everyone involved. If Horcoff has success this year, which i believe strongly he will, it is because the team shares the defensive load and that other centres prove to be NHL centres and not junior talents. Above all, with the team sharing the defensive and PK load thru the roster, Horcs lines 5 on 5 ice time will not be detrimentally affected which will give the golden boys greater ability to prgoress and achieve.

  7. Racki says:

    NorwegianOiler: I expected him to be named, frankly, having already put the “C” on my NHL11-version of Horcs, but I’m unsure if I’m really for it irl. Given that he’s struggled so badly, I’d have hoped they’d just go with 3 alternates – leaving Horcs without the added pressure of a captaincy. Then again, if they wanted a captain, there’s not a lot of candidates out there. Could have gone with a CHI, PIT, CAR, WSH style and named Hall or Eberle though, wouldn’t that have been special :P

    I think the choice was bang on. He struggled last year, but he knew it. He said he changed his trainer/training last year, and feels that might have thrown some things off, so he has a new training regimen again (it might be back to the old one, I can’t remember). He’s a great leader… the kids love him… the vets love him. Yes, there will be a tonne of pressure on him. And as I joked here with Steve-O/Trogdor at work, I think if the Oilers aren’t the #1 team by December, fans will be calling him out for a trade. But I think he’s a guy that has always given an honest effort, even if it didn’t work out some times. You can say the skills weren’t there last year (even he admits that), but even the average “Horcoff-hater” has always acknowledged that he busts ass every night. That’s the kind of guy we need here. I know there are many teams that don’t go with the “true” captain and elect the face of the franchise captains, but we’re smarter fans, and I think it still has meaning to players. He doesn’t need the “C” to lead, no, but it’s still a good gesture to give him that.

    I also agree with OIB in the sense that Horcoff’s play last year was also a product of how shitty the team was, and the lack of support he received in areas such as draws, the penalty kill and even offense. A decreased load on him, with his new attitude/training could bring back that Horcoff from a couple of years ago.

    OIB: I don’t normally attack other people’s comments here, but Cogliano waived?? That’s not a good idea at all, and I’m surprised you suggested it. Moving him to wing would be the ultimate suggestion (and it might happen come early season)… trading him would be a decent idea, if the return is good. His value around the league is much lower than his actual value though.. so trading him right now isn’t likely the best option. I think moving him to the wing is the best choice.

    Gagner, Brule, Fraser, Horcoff down the middle is much much better than Gagner, Cogliano, Fraser, Horcoff. It’s just one player different, but Brule is a giant leap ahead of Cogliano on the dot. They need to stop forcing that. The season hasn’t started though, so there is plenty of opportunity to.

  8. DropIt says:

    Best 3rd line C in the league :P

    I won’t claim to know anything about the Coil franchise, but I think anyone could see this coming. Only him and Hemsky are the remaining players on the team from the cup run if I’m not mistaken, and Alice doesn’t seem like a big leader (to an outside spectator)

    Should be ionteresting to see him with some decent linemates try to bounce back

  9. Racki says:

    For a guy that doesn’t know anything about the “Coil”, I’d say that was pretty bang on, DropIt.

  10. oilinblood says:

    Racki. i tried clicking on your name to send you a message but it didnt work so i sent ne to admin – which is you anyways,right?.

    As for your “attack” on my comment (when i read the attack bit i thought you were going to start swearing at me…disagreement is not attacking:).. Your comments are just but if he cant fill a role and calling up a Reddox or Ondrus or Vande Velde is a step forward then we need to jettison him. His trade value IS worthless because he has done nothing. I think even the laws of averages for the ice time afforded him in his 3 years should have had more points aquired thru random banking and deflections off him than what his career stats are. I like the guy, which is likely why you are surprised, but enough is enough…training wheels are off if you fall over get out. Hes not a rookie anymore, playing like a wet nosed junior is unacceptable.
    For the points above…waiver is a step forward. you will get nothing in return for him. his track record is he will do nothing to turn his value around and also there is no market for anyone nevermind a puny centre who cant win a single draw in 11 tries against ahl talent and non-pivots (which was a mockery of astronomically comical porportions)

    I have faith in Renney though. It is likely best to go with this crew for the first 8 games and see if anyone in their second contracts is a bust after 3+ full pro seasons affording them every chance to be successful and every easy shift. I like cogs more than gags but gags has more talent so his leash will be longer. even wingers at camp were better at being centres than Cogs. Trading COgs for a 6th isnt an upgrade over waiving him in my mind since Reddox is better than him in a bottom 6 role, Vande Velde has more of a future (perhaps best left for a full AHL season), and Ondrus impressed me alot on the wing as well.

    Frankly if i had to go with a team and couldnt make trades or call ups… id be happier with Brule at centre and reddox over Cogs. Even Reddox can slide over when Brule is thrown out and win draws better.

  11. Racki says:

    OIB: Saying “enough is enough” when it comes to Cogliano is the equivalent of MacTavish calling out Penner when he was playing with dipshit plugs. You don’t call a guy out that played most of his year with Moreau and Pisani.

    They need to just put him in a position where he can succeed with linemates he can succeed with.. simple as that. That’ll bring his numbers back to where he was. He’s only one season removed from his back to back 18-goal seasons. Calling him out now as a failure is typical impatient Oiler fan, I’m afraid.

    He is a valueless asset because the Oilers have made him that way. Give it time with him with Paajarvi and Brule.. especially if he plays on the wing. Then things could turn around.

    I like Reddox’s heart, but really, to say he’s an upgrade over Cogliano doesn’t make sense to me. That’s comparing apples to oranges. Reddox is a big heart grinder with a small frame. Cogliano is a small framed skill player who’s not getting the best opportunities he needs to succeed (what I call the Dustin Penner treatment).

    I suppose this goes back to making him Marchant 2.0. I think he could have that defensive side to him, but I still prefer him heavily as a skill forward that just so happens to have defensive abilities (which he’ll have to learn), not the reverse.

  12. Racki says:

    Oh and sorry, not sure what is up with my e-mail on my account (never use it, never bother to), but the Admin e-mail is the one I use. I got your e-mail at work here. No answer for that… but the Oilers have set up a youtube account.. that might help you out. Youtube is your friend, really.

    When you do create a video though, let me know, and I can link it here.

  13. oilinblood says:

    HEy RAck… off topic but Renney is on record as making the same prediction i did a month ago on the OMB.

    A cup in 5 years.
    incase you hadnt caught it
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/myoilers/2010/10/06/15596841.html

    btw the article is wrong… it wasnt Slats who said it the first time. it was Pocklington saying it after the Oilers lost the WHA championship (AVCO or sphincter cup – depending on if the person stating the name was an nhl player or WHA player) to the Jets in the WHAs final season.

    As for Cogs… Horc got Pisani and Moreau to work. Penner on the other hand was always useful, even you and i pointed this fact out on the OMB when the MacT comments were made. MacT thought it was the best way to motivate him to get even more return. Cogs isnt a comparable in my mind. Penner did things that made all lines he was on better, whether he got points or not. Cogs on the other hand seems to have been the recipient of others work and hasnt been the anchor or catalyst of responsibility that a pivot should be. This is why, although i like Cogs more, Gags is the one who stays. Gags does have the talent and is an anchor and catalyst of offense. Cogs speed is the only thing he has got. One of every 10 plays he might be able to use the speed to make the other 9 shifts seem less rediculously semi-pro.

    As for the videos: without saying too much in the open … is there anyone here that you know of that would have the source information. That can torrent source for me that i can download to create the finished product? And my goal is to put it in a torrent at the years end but likely ill ask you to link the unfinished quarterly pieces until its a wrap…at which point everyone can DL the complete torrent.

    If you feel it is safe to do so on this site maybe i can make an announcement to members requesting help attaining footage? I would suggest and ask that once arrangements were made and i found some options, that all conversations would then be deleted. Paranoid perhaps but … best to be so some times. (lawyer mind)

  14. Racki says:

    Yah that is a fair statement about Cogliano as a pivot and that he isn’t a comparable to Penner the way you’re describing. However, I’m just saying that both were misused… square pegs being forced in round holes at the time of being called out. My thoughts are that Cogliano is not a centerman. He’s a winger, and he’s a finisher. We’ve seen clutch goal scoring from him before, and I think that’s where he’s best served, and they can increase his ice time by working him into a PKing role as well too. But at EV strength, I think he should be on the wing scoring goals.

    Also, sorry, this isn’t the place to search youtube or torrents.. maybe the “full source” exists as torrents, but I’d prefer that isn’t brought up here, sorry.

  15. Bostonoiler says:

    Good for him. This was the right call by the Oilers. Another step in the right direction. On the Cogliano debate, I think he needs to play on the wing. He is clearly not a center. Fraser and Brule would help out Horcs a lot, Brule needs to center a line. This year is put up or shut up for BOTH Gagner and Cogliano.

  16. john says:

    Bostonoiler: Good for him. This was the right call by the Oilers. Another step in the right direction. On the Cogliano debate, I think he needs to play on the wing. He is clearly not a center. Fraser and Brule would help out Horcs a lot, Brule needs to center a line. This year is put up or shut up for BOTH Gagner and Cogliano.

    Agreed on Cogs, he has always struggled as a center but could excel as a winger. Maybe he just doesn’t possess the hockey sense needed to be a top 6 center. If he could just use his speed to drive the net looking for rebounds & break away passes without the burden of centerman responsibilities, he might find himself back on the 2nd line once in a while!

  17. gr8one says:

    oilinblood: “His trade value IS worthless because he has done nothing. I think even the laws of averages for the ice time afforded him in his 3 years should have had more points”

    Wow.

    That’s ridiculous.

    Last year aside, which I think we can all agree should just be thrown out for every Oiler player as a mulligan because the team as a whole was so brutal. Cogliano was almost a 20 goal scorer as a rookie and sophomore, and that while often playing 3rd/4th line minutes with slugs, and virtually no PP time, and saying he has done nothing? yipes.

    I certainly don’t see Cogs as having space on this team, but I think with the right opportunity he could be a 25 goal scorer that also plays a role on the PK. Waiving him is a ridiculous idea.

    You’re right about one thing though, his value is low, which is why I keep saying play him on one of the top 2 lines, give him some cherry minutes and ample PP time, showcase him like that, and get a good return for him at the deadline. Oh yeah, and play him on the wing, where he belongs.

  18. hemmerlady says:

    DropIt:
    Only him and Hemsky are the remaining players on the team from the cup run if I’m not mistaken, and Alice doesn’t seem like a big leader (to an outside spectator)

    Oh no you didn’t!! :p

  19. hemmerlady says:

    Seriously though, I don’t think I really care who has the C… I think one of the kids, Eberle, would be better suited for it (as NorwegianO said) but not now…not ready yet.

  20. Racki says:

    The Oilers website has some stuff up about Horc being named captain. You get the feeling that the players on the team are really happy about it and think the choice is good. Gagner made a comment with a smile on his face about how guys call him “GM” because he seems well organized and in touch with everything he is. Tambellini had a big smile on his face and said that when they had the one-on-one talk about it, Horc was very proud to be named captain.

    A few different players spoke pretty highly of the type of player is, and how well he interacts with everyone.

    Really, I know it’s a topic that’s been beaten to death elsewhere, but I still think that the captaincy is something meaningful to some players. Naming Horcs captain over the face of the franchise who doesn’t have much say… well that’s good to me, as I think they got this one right.

  21. chucker says:

    Good call on the captaincy. Horcoff is a good guy who the other players like and it’s obvious that he sees new life in his game and focus because of it. That’s what we all hoped would happen with this guy.

    On Cogliano…..Time will tell if he can develop his faceoff skills to an acceptable level, but I’m heavily siding with Racki here. We’re talking about a guy who puts up goals in the teens with less ice time and worse players than Gags. That’s really saying something about his ability to pot some on a terrible team with the worst possible players on the team to play with.

    I have no doubt that if he fails to become good on the dot, he’ll be used as a winger. We’re full of natural centremen and there has to be someone who will fill that void even if it’s only for the purpose of draws and then switch position after the draw. I’m going to predict a 15 goal plus season for Cogs and a plus rating. I think the kid is on a mission, had a good camp, is now getting better coaching and put in situations that match his skillset and he’ll succeed.

    He just might be this year’s unsung here.

    He’ll come in handy when/if Omark and Eberle are sent down/called up. The kid is NHL material. That’s indesputable to me. Just how good remains to be seen.

  22. oilinblood says:

    Just happy the debat e is over. im sure the boys in the room had him picked out for a while.

  23. zackman35 says:

    On the topic of Cogs, I’m agreeing with the majority here. At least this year he has Brule/Magnum on his wings which should help him out offensively. Defensively on the other hand… well he may have better stats in the goal column than the +/- column. :P

    And may Shawn Scorecoff lead us to many W’s, and not losses by going to the box with 3 mins left in the third.

    EDIT: The skin is in your hands now Racki, if you didn’t know by now.

  24. LateNightOilFan says:

    I think giving Horc the C was the best choice and I think he’ll do well with it. We talked about it quite a while ago and my opinion has not changed since then. I think it will motivate more than it will add pressure to him. I too, think it’s important to the players, so I’m happy they didn’t just leave the spot empty and I think it would have been a mistake to give it to a young player at this point.

  25. Racki says:

    Hemsky and Whitney have been named Assistants.

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